Thanks in advance for any advice/insight. why even bother tucking things in at 1am when youre going to be rounding again in 4 hours? The site may not work properly if you don't, If you do not update your browser, we suggest you visit, Press J to jump to the feed. I can speak to a sample of 1, uncle, Jeff, who I’ve written about before: Handsome fellow, right? In Conclusion. Every time it seemed like it was getting better I’d do a ruck march or pt test and it would be hurting again. Neurosurgeons top the list of highest paying medical professions. Absolute admiration for the most dedicated among us pursuing one of the most trying jobs in existence. I spent the greatest amount of time at the county hospital which was a moderately busy trauma center and stroke center. This is my feeling. 3. As a chief I probably went a day a week where I did not see my daughter at all; leave before she wakes up and back by the time she falls asleep. At OrthoNeuro, we use a multi-disciplinary team of surgeons, physical medicine and rehabilitation physicians along with physical therapists to diagnose, treat, and rehabilitate back pain, and conditions and injuries to the spine. You can be in the angiosuite playing video games with catheters. Read more about Dr. Fayaz’s training in neurosurgery. Just ask if Dr Torres and Dr Sheppard could both scrub in on the surgery. Downsides: Some spine surgery, which is such a big part of private practice neurosurgery, is painful and, of questionable overuse. Best was like 5:15-5:30 for 6am table rounds. Merritt Hawkins reported the average annual salary offer for orthopedic surgeons in 2011 was $521,000. We started the day at 6am with table rounds. Lifestyle: Neurosurgery residency has a reputation as a difficult one. Out in private practice I'm anticipating, if I successfully build a practice, 2 days clinic/2 days OR/angio a week. Fellowships: Like a lot of surgical subspecialties neurosurgical fellowships were a pretty unregulated bit; except for pediatrics which always seemed more organized. We ban and do not look back. An orthopedic surgeon who receives additional training—a spine fellowship—is considered a spinal surgeon. Students searching for Sports Medicine Doctor vs Orthopedic Surgeon found the following information relevant and useful. During the first two years of employment, orthopedic spine surgeons bring in $400,000, according to Allied Physicians. We'd average about 1 door busting emergency surgery a week when on call. We'll save it in our wiki for future reference! I don't wanna sound narcissistic but its got a reputation and there's a nice ring to saying you're a neurosurgeon. A patient today can seek consultation with either a neurosurgeon or an orthopedic surgeon appropriately trained in residency and, possibly, in a post-graduate fellowship in spine surgery who has devoted his or her practice to spinal disorders. Hell, a good neuro might even recommend some minimally invasive procedure (ie a stimulator) as opposed to a full blown discectomy. The actual time worked could really vary wildly but on average I'd say I got there at 6am and left at 7-8pm as chief. That and their surgical techniques are generally hammer and chisel as opposed to finessed. TRUE SPINE EXPERTS Offering State-of-the-Art Non-Surgical, Surgical & Rehabilitation Treatments. did it get better, or did it get worse? A crossover between the two specialties often occurs in the operating room. I have been working with a orthopedic surgeon who wants me to have a discectomy on my lower back, I have a herniated disc, L4-L5 that’s pushing on a nerve causing back and leg pain. Background: I'm fresh out of an neuroendovascular fellowship and finished my residency last June. L5 S1 fusion is major surgery whereby the L5/S1 disc is removed and the L5 and S1 spinal bones are stabilized by hardware. Sure, severe neurotrauma / big bleeds on Coumadin are rough, but often you just do the best you can do and hope for the best. I'd try to touch base with the faculty who had anyone sick in the ICU or for whom any patients I had concerns on. Unruptured aneurysm cases (either endo or open) are sweet because it's like pulling a human off train tracks just in time. An orthopedic surgeon is also an MD or a DO, and completed specialty training. I had a small attending practice and took general cranial neurosurgery call during my fellowship. Dismissing some misconceptions: Plenty of surgeons are type A but most neurosurgery training programs, I get the sense, are not malignant. Our general census was 60 - 70 patients. About half of them consults. In addition 7 - 9 years is a long time. And there were certainly a few examples where I'd go 48-72 hrs without seeing her awake. Becker’s Hospital Review found neurosurgeons earned an average of $767,627 in 2010. Good luck! 2  Generally, neurosurgeons operate on conditions that affect the spinal cord, which is composed of nerves, while orthopedic surgeons operate on the spine, which surrounds the spinal cord and is composed of bone. At the county hospital as a junior we got out post call pretty reasonable usually. Neurosurgeons are more focused on the neural elements. I can sleep fitfully for an hour or 2 at night, and that's it. I am in the Army, active duty. Call was q 4-5 as a junior in house and q 2-3 as a chief at county. This is actually a big reason I opted for plastic surgery instead. The pain has gotten much worse. I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. L1 : Iliac crest and groin: Cremasteric (and L2)L2,3: Hip flexion Hip adduction: iliopsoas (lumbar plexus, femoral n.hip adductors (obturator n.Anterior and inner thigh: None: L4: Knee extension (also L3): quadriceps (femoral n.Lateral thigh, anterior knee, and medial leg Through UF Health (formerly Shands Hospital at the University of Florida) and the Gainesville VA Medical Center, the UF Department of Neurosurgery offers services in cerebrovascular surgery, radiosurgery, epilepsy treatment, spine and spinal cord surgery, pediatric neurosurgery… Posted by Legacy Neurosurgery When a patient begins to experience back pain that will require a specialist’s attention, many consider making an appointment with an orthopedic surgeon to be the natural next step. When choosing the right doctor for spinal surgery, you should consider the differences between a neurosurgeon and an orthopedic surgeon. A neurosurgeon may perform surgeries that involve bone grafts, as in spinal fusions, whereas an orthopaedic surgeon may perform surgery such to repair a nerve in an arm or leg. A lot by rotation. In general the fellowships are: Skull Base/Neurooncology +/- Cerebrovascular. Looks like you're using new Reddit on an old browser. We are here to support one another, and help resolve any VA / Veterans related issues. you've gotta go more in depth about income because that's one of the biggest factors in people's decisions along with lifestyle. Doctors who are orthopedic surgeons will often recommend surgery, which can become a very treacherous path for any patient to follow. If I stop moving for too long, I fall asleep, then my cognitive function are screwy for a long time. These can lead to practice variations in what procedures are favored. There are honestly a lot more relatively good outcomes than people think overall. We spent time at the VA, a Children's hospital and a hospital my faculty had a private practice. To get an idea of the typical range of successful USMLE Step 1 scores, the National Resident Matching Program (NRMP) publishes some useful statistical data. otherwise we are beating around the bush. We'd have two to three ORs "starting" at 7:30. The chief would round through the ICU with whatever junior was there. There is are so many amazing gadgets and tools to learn and play with. You meet your patient in pre op you start your OR you keep going to your OR is done. But that's sometimes not hte case at programs. The bad shit is pretty fucking bad, but you're the only one who can give them a decent shot. Everything was fine after surgery. Question/Advice. But people catch only glimpses of recovery. I spoke to my primary care manager, and she has referred me to a neurosurgeon that’s at Fort Campbell so I can have the surgery there, since it’s much closer to Fort Knox than where I am now. Of course, if there's something cool as a first start you want to see and you didn't get slaughtered the night before, then stick around. Procedures: To me it sometimes seemed like neurosurgery is so specialized that it shouldn't be this way but you do all different *types* of surgery. you sound like youre in a similar situation where having a neuro surgeon would be pretty helpful, I call it the devil's bassline. For better or worse. But 10 months later the pain came back. Keep in mind no matter what you do most residencies are trying. It is fascinating. The L4-L5. Our surgeons specialize in Knee, Hip, Shoulder, Foot & Ankle, Back Neck & Spine, Hand Wrist & Elbow, and Total Joint Replacement. It changed a lot. I mean spine surgery is basically orthopedics and hammers and bones and little bit of grunt work. Archived. A neurosurgeon is trained to treat conditions of the brain and spine, while an orthopaedic spine surgeon specializes in treating the spine. There is no cure for GBM, neurotrauma can be bad, high grade subarachniod hemorrhage can be bad. 101 programs 268 applicants for 195 positions 86% match rate among US seniors in 2011 Recovery was a pain in the ass, but I had no issues until this past September, when a muscle strain in my lower back turned into numbness in my left quad and I decided to get ahead of it this time. Don't be a snowflake and be able to take some criticism but I'm friends with plenty of the faculty who trained me and my former co-residents. In Conclusion. If you are visiting r/veterans for the first time please read the rules. I’m working with a pain management specialist and physical therapist to resolve it without surgery this time. Vail, Edwards & Summit County, Colorado. I’m happy to share more if you need. Well, my perception of the neurosurgeon lifestyle is, unfortunately, mixed. The neurosurgeon was there to decompress the nerve. Neurologist for Herniated Discs Neurologists also come in many areas of focus with spinal and brain experts being at … After table rounds we'd split up to round. I can only think of a handful of days, maybe 4 or 5, in all of residency when I *needed* to go to the OR, then you might be there til the afternoon. Wake up, change into backup underpants and scrubs, get a big ass coffee and power through. Has anyone here had a similar surgery with a neurosurgeon? By the time I went to the doc (after I got out) my L4/5 disc had ruptured and fusion surgery was pretty much my only option. A new Medscape poll probes doctor lifestyles. 13. I wasn't the most thorough of chiefs. Posted by 2 years ago. Orthos are terrible for back injuries because most have the mindset to cut first, and ask questions later. Veteran Crisis Hotline Dial 1-800-273-8255 Press 1, Looks like you're using new Reddit on an old browser. How verbose do I need to be? I'd say most of them average around 1.1-1.2 mil. Long story. The most comprehensive study ever performed assessing whether surgeon specialty, i.e., orthopaedic surgeons, and neurosurgeons, contributes to a significant difference in spine fusion surgery outcomes has found “ there is no difference between orthopedic spine surgeons and neurosurgery … For the same reason, I’d go with an ortho over a neuro if it was your knee or shoulder. 5. Orthopedic surgeons performed spinal deformity surgery such as scoliosis as well as joint and trauma surgery. Accreditation of fellowships is getting a little more standardized with SNS stepping up (although the process has some growing pains). The ortho was there to fuse a piece of bone around the nerve. When removing a brain tumor, there often isn’t a super clear cut demarcation between tumor and healthy tissue. In academic neurosurgery and orthopedic surgery departments, there are specialized surgeons who practice only spinal surgery and provide this important training to residents as part of their core curriculum. Recently I went to an orthopedic who looked at the mri and saw my nerve was being compressed. The expertise of neurosurgeons and orthopaedic surgeons overlaps significantly, and although ‘spinal surgery’ is not a recognized field of its own in terms of having a regulatory body it is emerging as a viable career option for those interested.Whilst some neurosurgeons perform only brain surgery and call on other specialists when the spine is … 2011 NRMP Match Data. Income: I anticipate I'm about to be with my income guarantee and pretty good per diem call contracts. A deep, angry, hot thrumming down my leg. You did a great job capturing the highs and lows of the specialty! Now I'm heading to join a 9 surgeon (with me) private practice down in Texas. Some of these injuries and diseases take a long time to recovery. I chose the surgery because they were threatening to put me on the med board. The site may not work properly if you don't, If you do not update your browser, we suggest you visit, Press J to jump to the feed. Neurosurgeon VS. Orthopedic Surgeon for lower back surgery. This is pretty self-explanatory. Not specific to back surgery, but my uncle recently had surgery done on his hip by an ortho, and ended up with drop foot, a neuro condition where you lose some foot control. Sometimes the fellowships can be combined for instance skull base/cerebrovascular + endovascular. I'd divy up with the juniors to talk to other faculty. Some junior would be on peds and walk to that tower to round. Academic tumor/vascular/functional neurosurgeons ~$500,000-700,000/yr. Many years ago, neurosurgeons were primarily responsible for spine surgery, but in the past 20 to 25 years spine surgery has evolved so that both neurosurgeons and orthopedic surgeons specialize in spine surgery, and for most of the typical spine operations both types of surgeons are equally well … When people met me in med school they assumed that they misheard me when I said Ophtho. To learn more about the salary and incentive packages offered to all specialties of physicians and advanced practitioners in various workplace settings—including bonuses, relocation packages, student loan repayment and other elements of compensation—download a copy of the 2019 Review.This comprehensive report also looks at the current demand for various medical specialties, and a number … Welcome to /r/MedicalSchool: An international community for medical students. Our surgeons specialize in Knee, Hip, Shoulder, Foot & Ankle, Back Neck & Spine, Hand Wrist & Elbow, and Total Joint Replacement. TL;DR: Do neurosurgery because the brain is a fascinating space and there are incredible tools and toys coming out all the time to play with and you get to help people with incredibly scary diseases. Cerebrovascular surgery or skull base tumors can be the most micro of microsurgery; the antithesis of spine surgery. Some fellowships overlap with other specialties; for instance there are a number of neuro/ortho spine fellowships or I know neurosurgeons who have done fellowships with ortho spine surgeons. Students searching for Sports Medicine Doctor vs Orthopedic Surgeon found the following information relevant and useful. I hate meetings. I’ve been dealing with the pain in my lower back for almost 2 years, and in the last 6 months it’s moved into my right hip, and down my right leg. Call: As above at my county hospital it was q 4 - 5 in house as a junior and q 2 - 3 from home as a chief. Yeah dawg, that's gonna be a no from me... JK, really admire everyone who is willing to go through living hell for something they love. Another example is neuroendovascular/neuro IR where neurosurgeons and neuroradiologists and neurologists all mingle. One of the first decisions to make is whether to look for a neurosurgeon or orthopedic spine surgeon. The pain went away. Inpatient vs Outpatient: In training we were lucky, we didn't have to cover a lot of faculty clinics. Census was only 20ish though lol, At my institution, I've seen the residents finish OR cases at 1 am, have to round and tuck things in. Spine patients often do well, benign meningiomas in non-eloquent areas are like the best surgery for your feels since you can often cure the patient with no residual defecits. My program did a dedicated lab year - it was stupid because I have no interest in bench or translational research and if they would've just cut a year off of residency I would've taken it. The University of Florida Department of Neurosurgery offers a full range of neurosurgical services. Those who specialized in pediatric neurosurgery earned $643,188. Endovascular procedures, various new tumor treatment modalities (LITT, focused u/S, radiotherapy), intraoperative navigation, intraoperative imaging, exoscopes, endoscopes, etc. If you have a back issue or severe back pain, seek out a neurosurgeon for their evaluation and diagnosis for proper treatment. They thought I said Ortho because I'm a pretty big guy (definitely big for an Indian guy) and a big Lakers fan. I do this maybe 5, 6 times a night. I’m traveling back to Fort Knox in 2 weeks, and won’t be able to see this orthopedic surgeon to have the surgery done. Absolutely not how I want to spend my years on this earth. The technical skills, for the most part, can be taught. If it were my back I’d go with a neurosurgeon for sure. Question/Advice. To answer your question, I’d go with the neurosurgeon over the ortho for any operation on your spine, because that’s his specialty. There are usually only two residents per year in a neurosurgery training program. Income is another way in which neurosurgery and orthopedic surgery differ. Orthopedic Surgeons. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. Primary (Princeton) Office Location – 3836 Quakerbridge Road – Suite 203 Hamilton, NJ 08619 (609) 890-3400. This post will be cataloged on the wiki for posterity. Total median salary: $575,000. Your symptoms sound pretty much identical to mine, but mine were less severe and in the left leg. We averaged 5-6 new consults a day typical things were head and spine trauma, hypertensive hemorrhages, hemorrhages from aneurysms and malformations, brain tumors, herniated discs, congenital malformations. I hurt my back while I was in and saw a civilian neurosurgeon who did a discetomy. Base median salary: $575,000. But we had rotations at other hospitals with home call where that schedule varied. Good luck with whatever decision you make. Your situation is similar to mine. That's when you sleep at the hospital or your car if it's more comfy. From third year on I was basically in the OR four days a week. But in terms of hours it was awesome. Its not a medicine ward team waiting for the attending to round (to be honest the attending may not round) to come up with the plan. While an orthopedic surgeon is a better choice if you need a new hip, knee, shoulder, or have a severely broken bone, anything related to the spine is best treated by a skilled neurosurgeon. How do you know if X specialty is right for you? Neurosurgery Treatments > An orthopedic surgeon specializes in injuries involving bones, joints, ligaments, and muscle tissue. Then you're tired but you nap, pick your daughter up from day care, play with her. The orthopedic surgeon explained everything about the surgery and how it would go regarding recover time and all that, can I expect the same thing from the neurosurgeon, or is there a different type of surgery that they would want to perform, being a neurosurgeon and not an orthopedic surgeon? Also, despite what I said above, there are some bad outcomes. The pain is horrible. A neurosurgeon specializes in injuries or situations involving the brain and spine. In peds tethered cords and benign tumors can be excellent outcomes with decades of followup where you get to see them grow into healthy and happy adults. 1. Spine Surgery Expert: Neurosurgeon vs Orthopedic Spine Surgeon If you are considering having spine surgery , choosing a surgeon can be a daunting task. I go over how I decided between neurosurgery, orthopedic surgery, and plastic surgery on my vlog channel. Patient autonomy is growing in the healthcare system, and surgeons may find it helpful to identify preferences in physician selection. do you expect it to change when you are an attending? I can tell you that surgery may be the only option based on the issues you have. You can't be trying to find yourself still probably (still thinking about what medicine fellowship you're gonna do). If there are any weak points in your application, you should be prepared to discuss them during the interview. And while patients may not get back to where they were, the vast, vast majority are incredibly happy to be alive and be where they are and are grateful for what you did for them. I had a guy in my platoon that I particularly disliked, a loud-mouthed asshole who went on sick call to avoid going out, so I never went on sick call for my back. Vail-Summit Orthopaedics & Neurosurgery. They tell me they have to be back at 5 am for rounds. At that time neurosurgeons performed most spinal cord surgery in addition to surgery within the brain. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns. Private practice spine neurosurgeons can make >$1,500,000/yr if they're real productive. Coming from an EM resident who has done many months of icu and trauma, how do you deal with the "vegetable gardening" aspect? But if you do the surgery, know that you won’t know for several months if it actually heals. This is then repeated. Personally, I found it amazing. (I already stretched a lot, and I tried the yoga for 2 - 3 months), For the first year and a half it was off an on, as in it always hurt a bit, but was manageable. Great place to be in academic neurosurgery if you wanna do neuro research and have a clinical practice. Indications for L5 S1 fusion are debilitating pain and dysfunction arising from degenerative disc disease, slipped disc, fractures, recurrent herniations, sciatica, scoliosis, and spinal canal narrowing. The most I ever got was 23/24 hours. I've heard of some particularly low paying institutions being around $400,000. Thanks for the great write-up! I got a hernia right off, but my back hurt too. Also, we see a lot of badness it is true. It's stuff like this that makes me very adamant that there are fates far worse than death in this world. The hands-on experience also varies among neurosurgical and orthopedic training programs. I really don’t want to get surgery, I’m pretty depressed about it to be honest, but I’m holding out hope that the surgery will fix it and I won’t be in constant pain anymore. Background: I'm fresh out of an neuroendovascular fellowship and finished my residency last June.I had a small attending practice and took general cranial neurosurgery … Orthopedic surgeons see the spine much more biomechanically because that's what there field does. Typical day: As a resident my days varied quite considerably.